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Do You Exist?
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Author:  CuteKirlia [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Do You Exist?
I just discovered a funny philosophy I think was called "Soloquisim". Basically, it states that perhaps a person is the only person in the universe, and everyone else is a figment of their imagination. That everything is just a dream.

Prove to me that you exist, and that I have not dreamt this whole reality up. If you manage, I shall declare you a great master of philosophy.
I warn you, it's harder than you might think. You might just end up with a circular reasoning, which is futile denial of this philosophy.
Author:  SanguinaryScientist [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
I know from my POV I exist
But then that questions the sheer question itself, who is the real person anyway?

It could be you and im just a background character in your life
Or it could be me and you're a background character in mine

Or we could both be BG characters in someone we dont even know
Author:  GhostPony750 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Oh, now this is a philosophy? Well, I have thought of this when I was a kid.

But of course, there is simply no way to know, you can be made from my imagination as much as I can be from your. Do we see exactly the same things, the same colors? Do we hear the same way? There is simply no way to know.

Personally, I know that I exist, but I guess your imagination is not saying the truth then.

But of course, there is one thing that is for sure. "I think, therefore I am Error." (If you see the reference...)
Author:  Serpentsounds [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination." -Douglas Adams
Author:  Different55 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Serpentsounds wrote:
"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination." -Douglas Adams

"...It actually makes sense."
Author:  SanguinaryScientist [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Serpentsounds wrote:
"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination." -Douglas Adams


Sounds like a new religion to me
I like to describe myself as believing in everything, that there is some type of being controlling everyday things
And that im thankfull for them, so every time something goes in my favor I pinch my index finger and thumb together is a shape of a "B" (It was the "Im okay" sign) and say "Thank you based god" for the assumption that there is a god

Or when im in marching band I pray that the bass drums are in time and say "Thank you Bass God!"
My Bass god thing has spread like a wildfire in my school
the Based god thing, not so much
Author:  Different55 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
I would like to retract my previous statement. If there are an infinite number of worlds, then an infinite number of them would be [insert any describing phrase here], if [describing phrase] is physically possible. There's no place for finite in infinity if it's all randomly occurring (Personally I like to think it isn't random but that's just, like, my religion, man). That is, unless my brain is wrong, which it frequently is. Lots of ifs, but I think I might have explained it almost understandably.

SanguinaryScientist wrote:
Or when im in marching band I pray that the bass drums are in time and say "Thank you Bass God!"
My Bass god thing has spread like a wildfire in my school
the Based god thing, not so much

As a bass drum, I'm almost always on time.
Author:  Haunted Water [ Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
so what of sexual relationships? surely there is a difference between self-sex and actual sex in this philosophy.
if there isn't then eww, no thanks
Author:  CuteKirlia [ Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
That has nothing to do with this at all, as far as I can tell. If you don't mind Haunted, I'd perfer to keep this topic clean of that stuff. I could probably answer that question, but I'd rather not. Feel free to meditate on that to yourself on your own time.
This just means that a person is the only concious, real being out exsisting. That everyone else is just a figment of their imagination, and doesn't really exsist. Thus, the thought "I am the center of the universe" comes to mind. Litterally, the singular person whom is real is the only thing in the universe. I'm starting to circumlocute here, so I'll stop at that for my explanation.
Serpentsounds wrote:
"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination." -Douglas Adams

Ah. This quite well describes what I'm trying to say. It also reminds me that I have a lot of fantasy worlds I dream of. Who's to say this world isn't a dream either?
Author:  Different55 [ Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Serpentsounds wrote:
"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination." -Douglas Adams

Why do my opinions change so fast? Here's what I think about this tonight:
It's sounds funny/mildy interesting, but after thinking about it, that's all it is. Just something that's fun to think about for a while. The average population of all the planets might be infinitesimally small, but it's not zero. If it was, even if nobody else existed, that would mean you didn't exist, either, and we know that's not true.

I think I'm done changing my opinion but I thought that last time, too.
Author:  Serpentsounds [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
That quote is from a fiction novel and its intentions are purely comedic. No need to think too hard about it :P

An on-topic contribution:
I think everyone has thought this to themselves at one point or another. If everything else really was part of your imagination, though, then everything that you hear and even what you haven't heard is 100% your own design. You must think awfully highly of yourself. ;)

A related postulate I used to ponder was that every other person in the world was in a secret group/had some secret knowledge that they were keeping from me. And of course, they behaved as if nothing was amiss, so I would never suspect a thing (little did they know, I was on to them). This is equally silly but perhaps even harder to disprove.
Author:  ShinyScorpio [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
*sigh* My most commonly thought question. Do I exist? I believe that I do but in some sort of eventual way that I do. But then again if I think to hard I end up scaring myself somehow so ill stop there I guess.
Author:  Different55 [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Serpentsounds wrote:
That quote is from a fiction novel and its intentions are purely comedic. No need to think too hard about it :P

Good, I think I was about to break my brain.

Serpentsounds wrote:
A related postulate I used to ponder was that every other person in the world was in a secret group/had some secret knowledge that they were keeping from me. And of course, they behaved as if nothing was amiss, so I would never suspect a thing (little did they know, I was on to them). This is equally silly but perhaps even harder to disprove.

It's all fun and games until you start torturing people and/or threatening to destroy the world.
Author:  Haunted Water [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Tbh, I bring up a breaking point to this philosophy. If it cannot account for that, or if it disregards my thoughts on it, then it is obviously false. Also, I'm not believing it because if it is true, and everyone is a figment of your imagination, then the world is a bigger mindf**k then it already is. Inception could do well in explaining this.

In fact, Inception does explain it. If the world is your imagination, then how come you cannot simply wish away all of your problems? How come you cannot just crush your enemies, or rather, not have enemies?
Author:  Different55 [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Haunted Water wrote:
Tbh, I bring up a breaking point to this philosophy. If it cannot account for that, or if it disregards my thoughts on it, then it is obviously false. Also, I'm not believing it because if it is true, and everyone is a figment of your imagination, then the world is a bigger mindf**k then it already is. Inception could do well in explaining this.

In fact, Inception does explain it. If the world is your imagination, then how come you cannot simply wish away all of your problems? How come you cannot just crush your enemies, or rather, not have enemies?

Contrast? You can't appreciate anything without experiencing it's opposite.
Author:  Mektar [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
It is my understanding that all people exist, but only as figments of Haruhi's fickle imagination.
Author:  James86134 [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  I WILL EAT YOU SOUL
Its easy to know if someone else exists. Just simply eat their soul... Although, they won't exist after that.
Author:  Haunted Water [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
The common incurable diseases also prove this false. Existence is something that can be questioned, but not substituted. As in, I've never really heard about this philosophy until CuteKirlia mentioned. If I deny it's existence, it becomes obsolete, as I deny it a place in my thoughts, which, in turn, denies it's possibility to be true because it has no place to be part of my imagination. If all of you are projections and figments of my imagination, not only am I crazier than I previously thought, but then this creates a paradox. CuteKirlia could never have mentioned soloquism because it would have no means of existing in my mind and imagination beforehand, thus never existing in anybody's thoughts. Even if somebody tried to think about it, they could not because I, the one who let's them exist, would not allow it.

/me drops mic.
Author:  ChillBill [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
There is simply no way for me to prove that I exist... But I do. Perhaps merely the fact that your figments of imagination answer back in such a question is proof that they're real. Or, biologically speaking, if you've been dreaming for this long, how has your body survived in a semi-conscious state?
Author:  Different55 [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
ChillBill wrote:
There is simply no way for me to prove that I exist... But I do. Perhaps merely the fact that your figments of imagination answer back in such a question is proof that they're real.

Doubt it. In a dream, they're all figments of your imagination, but if you asked them, they'd say they're real most of the time.

ChillBill wrote:
Or, biologically speaking, if you've been dreaming for this long, how has your body survived in a semi-conscious state?

If it's all an illusion then there's no reason we should accept anything here as true. You might not need food, air, water, whatever in the real world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
If everyone else is a zombie, there's no way to tell. The best you can do is prove your own existence to yourself, but it's not like anyone else can be sure of it, though.
Author:  ChillBill [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Different55 wrote:
Doubt it. In a dream, they're all figments of your imagination, but if you asked them, they'd say they're real most of the time.

Obviously, but in a dream you control the world. The moment you realize it your imagination stops answering back and you either accept your dream state or wake up. So, possibly the fact that no matter how hard we try we never seem to have total control of our lives is the proof.
Author:  CuteKirlia [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
ChillBill wrote:
Obviously, but in a dream you control the world. The moment you realize it your imagination stops answering back and you either accept your dream state or wake up. So, possibly the fact that no matter how hard we try we never seem to have total control of our lives is the proof.

That's actually a pretty good point. Sometime, when I dream, I realize that I'm dreaming. "Wait a minute, why am I at a grocery store? And why does everyone ride dragons instead of cars?" And then I'm like, "Oh, this is a dream."
Then, say there's something I dislike about the dream. "Ugh, my dragon is a really lame brown dragon. He can't even fly right." Thus, decide to I manipulate my dream so it pleases me. For example, I imagine that there's an old ladie's house right down the block, and she's willing to trade her awesome dragon egg for my lame-o dragon for some reason (A retirement companion perhaps?). I then insert this figment of imagination into the realm, and get a better in-dream reality. Real life doesn't work like that. And of course, real life doesn't wake me up the instant I hatch my egg...[/color]
Author:  DNA [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Serpentsounds ilu for quoting The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Soloquism, or however you spell it, just sounds like someone took the idea of differing perceptions between people, and pushed it to an illogical extreme.
"You are real only to you and everything else is imaginary"? What are you, a time traveler from the 1960s?

The very idea in and of itself is laughable. It's the product of taking an idea to an extreme that doesn't even really apply. In essence...it's fundamentally flawed.
Author:  CuteKirlia [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
...

I looked it up again, it's actually spelled Solipism, not Soloquism. Oops, now I feel kind of dumb...

It's a real philosophy. Some Greek scholar or some scholar of SOME kind decide that he would doubt everything he could, until he found some indoubtable truth, which he would then work upwards upon. Not sure where he aimed to work upwards to though.
Anyway, he finally decided that he couldn't doubt that he was thinking. His initial questioning of his own exsistance gave him the idea, "I think, therefore I am." But, one notes that he was using circular reasoning, also known as begging the question. Litterally, this sentiment is to be interpreted as "I am, therefore I am." So in a way, he didn't prove anything at all. For a serious scholar, that's a dumb thing to do. To the point, this is somehow ties into how the whole idea of solipism was created. Somehow, but I have forgotten the details.
Ach, my poor brain is leaking...
Author:  Edoc'sil [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do You Exist?
Oof, I saw something on this months ago, and promptly expelled it from my mind because it hurt too much. But... I'll give it another try.

Solipsism proves itself wrong. ((I have no idea how to phrase what I'm about to say without sounding like a moron, so please bear with me)) It works on a personal basis, where the person who believes the theory becomes the sole member of reality. Therefore, when you believe the theory, you theoretically become the real one, while the surrounding universe is all imagination. At the same time, however, when I believe the theory, the same happens--I become the only existing thing. You are now my imagination.
The tricky part is, solipsism doesn't account for this. It is, as I said, a personal theory. When multiple people state that solipsism is true, it immediately is proven false. How can two people both be the only person in existence? As solipsism would have you believe, the individuals, as they each see it, are both the only real person. Person A is positive that Person B is imagined, while Person B believes the same of Person A. Solipsism, and I will stress this, does not account for a detached point of view. It cannot explain what is true and what is imagined as an outside observer to multiple people who all take it for the truth.

I realize that my explanation probably isn't too clear to whoever isn't me, so I'll probably re-elaborate on it later.
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