my sentiments exactly... i can't believe i forgot Drill peck (probably not used to "bird" pokemon...)

papersun is right about that. Like what I been saying before all moves have their ups and downs, like splash, the only thing it's good for is in cute pokemon contests. My little Wynaut couldn't have beaten all of them without it.

i rember in the old forums people used this as a rating centre.

i was only viewing the old ones btw

This is a great help and I thank Nido

This is a little late but interesting method...the future is brighter!

If I had found this topic before, I wouldn't have made so bad movesets. I'll try to be a bit more creative and try to use some sort of strategy...

Nice stuff! I have terrible movesets (see my post in the rating center) and this is a great help. May I add that you missed some pokemon that learn TMs naturally...
<p> family : Dragon Claw (TM02)
<p> family : Calm Mind (TM04)
<p> : Roar (TM05)
<p> : Toxic (TM06)
<p> : Hyper Beam (TM15)
<p> family : Protect (TM17)
<p> : Thunder (TM25)
<p> family : EQ (TM26)
<p> family : Solar Beam (TM22)
<p> family & family & family & family & : Psychic (TM29)
<p> family : Shadow Ball (TM30)
<p>{taillow} family : Double Team (TM32)
<p> & : Flamethrower (TM35)
<p> family & family : Sludge Bomb (TM36)
<p> family : Sandstorm (TM37)
<p> : AA (TM40)
<p> : Attract (TM45)
<p> : Thief (TM46)
<p> : Light Screen (TM16) & Reflect (TM33)
<p> family & family : Ice Beam (TM13) & Blizzard (TM14)
<p> : Light Screen (TM16) & Thunderbolt (TM24) & Thunder (TM25)
<p> family : Hyper Beam (TM15) & EQ (TM26) & Sandstorm (TM37)
<p>But i think i STILL missed out a few besides my labourious checking...
<p></p><p>P.S. "Family" means all pokemon in that particular evolution line ABOVE that particular pokemon. I didn't include unbreedables or those that are already there. I didn't include egg groups either so...

May I add on a few that you missed, tessa?

only: Rain Dance (TM 18 )
only: Sunny Day and Explosion (TM 11 and FR/LG Tutor)
: Swords Dance and Taunt (FR/LG Tutor and TM 12)
: Torment (TM 41)
: Giga Drain and Toxic (TM 19 and TM 06)
: Body Slam (FR/LG Tutor
/{slaking}: Counter (FR/LG Tutor)
: Focus Punch (TM 01)
: Dig (TM 28 )
: Double Team and Swords Dance (TM 32 and FR/LG Tutor)
: Shadow Ball (TM 30)
Family: Rest (TM 44)
Family: Swagger (Emerald Tutor)
Family: Seismic Toss (FR/LG Tutor)
: T-Wave, Rock Slide, Sandstorm, and Rest (Tutor, Tutor, TM 37 and TM 44)

This only happens if the opponent used an attack that requires charging. If the had used Fake Out, followed by a strong attack like Extrasensory, even with the Steel resistance to Normal and Psychic, it would have died (If a Solarbeam would have killed , Fake Out and Extrasensory surely also will).

I would like to add on that Fly, Dig, Bounce and Dive are only "good" in 1-on-1s. That way you don't have to fear the opponent switching.

Anyway, if you're playing 1-on-1, why not just Leech Seed-Toxic?

Note from sN0wBaLL: Don't double-post in the future, use the Edit function. I've merged your two posts for you this time; the next time it'll be post deletion.

-Help appreciated.
-I don't count tutors becuase they cannot be transferred by breeding except in a few cases.
-I am compiling my own TM list and it should be up soon.
-I see you mostly put Hoenn pokemon.
-The list is STILL incomplete.

Just about every pokemon learns some TM.

[edit]I phrased this incorrectly, I meant "Everybody learns at least 1 TM by level up.[/edit]

Not exactly. It can be said that every TM has at least one guy who learns it, but i don't know if what you said is true.

Basically the guide is meant to provide examples, not all the possible TM moves that Pokemon can learn. So the list isn't incomplete, because it was never meant to be completed. Period.

Uh.... ok i take your point. But I have been looking all over for a list of Natural TMs and I have not found one yet so i take it i have to make my own. Which I did. I'm trying to type it in but it is currently on hold until I find out how to make the tables work.

Do pok

Very good guide. Thanks for making things more easier for everyone else.

i use surf all the time its a good attack

I'm very sure the guide doesn't say that Surf is bad. It says that most HMs, like Fly, are bad. Surf is the only exception.

no complaints at all im still a little confused on the whole EV thing but ill figure it out.

"4) Status Conditions
In addition to their direct effects, some conditions have other effects as well. Paralysis lowers speed greatly and Burns lower Attack. "


Yes, that's why I hate my pokemon to be paralyzed. I wonder what posion does. Does it lower defense?

The guide's right. Surf is really good. Especially if you're fighting a double battle.

Hey Nido, I have found and poke that gives you +3 Spec. Def. Golbat in Victory on the Second level. It gives me about 1300-1400 exp. every time I battle it, and it is so easy to defeat too.

That set doesnt work. Will-o-wisp lowers attack, and Confuse Ray basically depends on Attack to hope for hitting itself. So that set, is a no-no. Anyway, great guide.